So che non mi perdonerete...

[waltherp38]

...ma da ieri sono entrato in possesso di una cinesissima Norinchia in 45 accipicchia

Una guardia giurata la voleva dar via e mi son fatto tentare.

E' rifinita una munnezza, ha spigoli a lama di scalpello ma è tutto puro acciaio lavorato da ergastolani incaxxati contro Mao...'na poesia!

[lbbast]

Provare.... e postare i risultati...... che sono ultra tentato dall'acciaio orientale

[rommel]

sigh... cosa è costretta a fare la gente onesta in questi periodi di crisi per poter sparare...
e sulla purezza dell' acciaio cinese ce ne sarebbe da dire... se la metti al buio può darsi che faccia luce tanto è radioattiva!!

[waltherp38]

sigh... cosa è costretta a fare la gente onesta in questi periodi di crisi per poter sparare...
e sulla purezza dell' acciaio cinese ce ne sarebbe da dire... se la metti al buio può darsi che faccia luce tanto è radioattiva!!

Tutto maledettamente vero, caro rommel. Avrei voluto stupirvi con effetti speciali ma... stev 'nguaijat 'e debiti

[waltherp38]

@Ibbast: le faremo sapere!

[Blackrifle]

se la metti al buio può darsi che faccia luce tanto è radioattiva!!

la metti al posto della stella ,n cima all'albero di natale!!!!!

[tonino]

Dove frequento la stanno comprando in molti e ne sono entusiasti,anchio ho comprato uno schiuppitto cinese in 223 e devo dire che mi piace anche se non sono assolutamente esperto di semiauto ma dopo quello che ha scritto blackrifle e cioe che non e peggiore di tanti altri mi sono convinto e finora non si e sfasciato nulla,vorra dire che al prossimo raduno ci presenteremo con la divisa cinese !!!!!

[faxbat]

...ma da ieri sono entrato in possesso di una cinesissima Norinchia in 45 accipicchia

Una guardia giurata la voleva dar via e mi son fatto tentare.

E' rifinita una munnezza, ha spigoli a lama di scalpello ma è tutto puro acciaio lavorato da ergastolani incaxxati contro Mao...'na poesia!

Hai fatto bene, anzi benissimo: importante e' che funzioni. Poi quando ne avrai voglia ti procuri un po' di pezzi di ricambio e la nobiliti ( ti consigliera' come al solito il gentilissimo Mr45 ). Infine hai un manufatto bagnato da sangue e lacrime di tanti poveri compagni e questo dovrebbe bastare per tenerla come ricordo. Che sia radioattiva? Eccchisenefrega, ho mezza casa costruita con cemento sovietico di colore verde arrivato da chissa' dove nel fatidico anno 1973...e sono ancora qui.

[mimmo002]

e lecito desiderare di conoscere il prezzo di una norinco in 45 usata ?
in questo link valuto la cosa viewtopic.php?f=11&t=5427&p=98647&hilit=norinco+usata#p98647

[lbbast]

Oggi ad esempio ho provato una Sti in .45...... spettacolosa, e se non sbaglio è un prodotto mooooltooo "orientale"

[Don Beretta]

Sono confuso.
Come uomo sono contento perchè un amico ha esaudito un desiderio e ora ha un nuovo giocattolo
Come uomo di chiesa dico che, quando il diavolo ci tenta basta dire un rosario per far passare la tentazione. Se la tentazione non passa, due belle bacchettate sulle unghie delle mani fanno miracoli.
Walther, tu hai gia detto il rosario?????..........

[rommel]

Le sti spartan sono fatte carrelli canne e fusti nelle filippine e assemblaggio in texas... e come dici tu è spettacolosa...
La norinco non ci è nemmeno parente e di spettacolare non ha niente..

[waltherp38]

De gustibus...cara desertfox.

Per quel che l'ho pagata ne vale ogni cents e a me va bene così. Basta sapersi contentare ed io mi accontento di poco.

Quando potrò investire qualcosa di più sostanzioso senza che questa mia spesa venga letta dalla mia coscienza come uno schiaffo alla miseria sarà sicuramente una nineteen-eleven springfield o colt, magari bellica chi può dirlo...

@Don Beretta: se bastasse solo un rosario...

[Pyno&dyno]

Hai già provato la sputafuoco?

[waltherp38]

Mi sono fermato alla toeletta...sai com'è ci sn guardie giurate che adottano la stessa filosofia di radio: le armi se le pulisci si rovinano

Al momento mi mancano dies e ogive, caro compare...

Polvere?GM3, of course!

Na cos a vot e sistemiamo tutto.

[Pyno&dyno]

Beh, per provarla potevi farti fare un pò di colpi dallo scurnacchiato di Jigen lui dovrebbe avere tutto

[mimmo002]

in questo link uguale ma gia venduta , e completa di scatolo e manuale
http://www.armiusate.it/catalogo/242/Pi ... 5-ACP.html

norinco 45.JPG

norinco 1.JPG

norinco 2.JPG

[Sergio]

Premesso che sono contro l'acquisto di roba cinese, non solo parlando di armi ma parlando di tutto quello che posso evitare di cinese, su A&T di questo mese c'è la prova della Norinco NP29, ovvero la versione in 9x21... si vende nuova a 430 euro, prezzo ovviamente che è la metà di moltissime delle concorrenti. Che dire, dicono chiaramente che ci sono parecchie cosette da cambiare (addirittura uno dei due caricatori era inutilizzabile oltre il quinto colpo...), ma che con poca spesa e qualche aftermarket può diventare ottima, essendo comunque lavorata decentemente dove serve. De gustibus...

[rommel]

caro whalter non fraintendere il mio ultimo post, hai tutta la mia solidarietà per questo momento di crisi che sta colpendo tanti (me compreso), e giustamente pur di sparare ci si accontenta! ci mancherebbe poi che mi metta ad esprimere giudizi so cosa compra uno o perchè lo compra...
Io ci tenevo a precisare con ibbast che anche se la spartan è fatta nelle filippine poi l' assemblaggio è fatto nel texas e anche a livello di finiture sono cmq superiori alla norinco: io ne ho una che è molto più stretta di 2 colt che ho avuto e spara anche decisamente meglio!

[Albatros]

...ma da ieri sono entrato in possesso di una cinesissima Norinchia in 45 accipicchia

Una guardia giurata la voleva dar via e mi son fatto tentare.

E' rifinita una munnezza, ha spigoli a lama di scalpello ma è tutto puro acciaio lavorato da ergastolani incaxxati contro Mao...'na poesia!

Ciao Francé, posta qualche foto, sicuramente hai un'ottima base per customizzare......

Donatello

[waltherp38]

Take a look at this:

http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/sidea ... -know.html

[lbbast]

In effetti, ne parlano benino......

[Mr45]

Meccanicamente è una 1911, LA pistola, i materiali sono di qualità, anche se le rifiniture lasciano a desiderare, se la si prende come base per una customizzazione la ritengo perfetta

[Saccaboy]

Meccanicamente è una 1911, LA pistola, i materiali sono di qualità, anche se le rifiniture lasciano a desiderare, se la si prende come base per una customizzazione la ritengo perfetta

Se devo spenderci su 500 euro in accessori preferisco prendere direttamente una Taurus che ha tutto e và molto molto bene.

[Mr45]

Meccanicamente è una 1911, LA pistola, i materiali sono di qualità, anche se le rifiniture lasciano a desiderare, se la si prende come base per una customizzazione la ritengo perfetta

Se devo spenderci su 500 euro in accessori preferisco prendere direttamente una Taurus che ha tutto e và molto molto bene.

Le quote di Taurus sono, anche pochissimo, diverse e molta componentistica aftermarket "non ci va". Se con 1.000 Euro hai una 1911 custom su base Norinco venuta bene non ha senso spendere di più per fartene una in cui non puoi montare, o lo puoi fare con pesanti interventi di adattamento e con risultati tutti da vedere, pezzi Wilson o Ed Brown o quant'altro

[GesGas]

Meccanicamente è una 1911, LA pistola, i materiali sono di qualità, anche se le rifiniture lasciano a desiderare, se la si prende come base per una customizzazione la ritengo perfetta

bee questo non e' poi cosi scontato fidati.... customizzare un arma del genere che quasi sicuramente a quote non standard e' un impresa pazzesca.. ad esempio.. sei sicuro che dorsalini, cane, canne, ed altri particolare che si trovano sul mercato sono compatibili al 100% con queste 1911 made in cina?? io non ci giurerei...
c'e' poi il rischio di spendere tanti soldi e ritrovarsi tra le mani sempre la medesima arma.
piuttosto di portarmi a casa una 911 norinco nuova mi prendo una Kimber usata.. tutta la vita..

[Mr45]

Meccanicamente è una 1911, LA pistola, i materiali sono di qualità, anche se le rifiniture lasciano a desiderare, se la si prende come base per una customizzazione la ritengo perfetta

bee questo non e' poi cosi scontato fidati.... customizzare un arma del genere che quasi sicuramente a quote non standard e' un impresa pazzesca.. ad esempio.. sei sicuro che dorsalini, cane, canne, ed altri particolare che si trovano sul mercato sono compatibili al 100% con queste 1911 made in cina?? io non ci giurerei...

...sono compatibili, ne ho "fatte" alcune senza nessun problema, la Norinco è a quote standard, a meno che non sia cambiato qualcosa nell'ulotimo anno, ma penso proprio di no

[rommel]

io sinceramente ho dei dubbi sul fatto dei materiali di qualità.. Ciò ci vogliono analisi scientifiche per stabilire la qualità dei materiali, non dicono che siano per forza scadenti ma neanche che siano di buona qualità senza riscontri effettivi..

[Sergio]

io sinceramente ho dei dubbi sul fatto dei materiali di qualità.. Ciò ci vogliono analisi scientifiche per stabilire la qualità dei materiali, non dicono che siano per forza scadenti ma neanche che siano di buona qualità senza riscontri effettivi..

Ho sentito molte persone parlare di materiali di qualità per le norinco, e tutte persone competenti in materia, se non ricordo male studi in merito ne sono stati fatti, magari claudio ne sa di più. Non amo le cinesi ma bisogna dargliene atto.

[Mr45]

I materiali sono ottimi, e le quote sono Colt. Le rifiniture variano dal pessimo al passabile al buono secondo la fabbrica che ha sfornato il pezzo, comunque, di massima, segni di utensili dappertutto ma ottime finiture nei punti a lavoro. le Norinco sono ottime basi per farsi una 1911 custom

[GesGas]

...sono compatibili, ne ho "fatte" alcune senza nessun problema, la Norinco è a quote standard, a meno che non sia cambiato qualcosa nell'ulotimo anno, ma penso proprio di no

si ok puo essere.... anche se io personalmente ho sempre preferito per customizzare prendere un usato ma di buona marca ad esempio springfield, kimber, Colt..ecc... si trovano ottimi usati in giro a prezzi altrettanto ottimi...
e poi ripeto.. a che serve cambiare il 90% dei componenti a una 1911 Norinco.. l'arma a mio parere avra sempre materiali e tolleranze scadenti... son soldi buttati poi ovvio uno fa' quello vuole.

[G962]

I materiali sono ottimi, e le quote sono Colt. Le rifiniture variano dal pessimo al passabile al buono secondo la fabbrica che ha sfornato il pezzo, comunque, di massima, segni di utensili dappertutto ma ottime finiture nei punti a lavoro. le Norinco sono ottime basi per farsi una 1911 custom

Ho il serio sospetto che il nostro amico parli con cognizione di causa...

[Mr45]

...sono compatibili, ne ho "fatte" alcune senza nessun problema, la Norinco è a quote standard, a meno che non sia cambiato qualcosa nell'ulotimo anno, ma penso proprio di no

si ok puo essere.... anche se io personalmente ho sempre preferito per customizzare prendere un usato ma di buona marca ad esempio springfield, kimber, Colt..ecc... si trovano ottimi usati in giro a prezzi altrettanto ottimi...
e poi ripeto.. a che serve cambiare il 90% dei componenti a una 1911 Norinco.. l'arma a mio parere avra sempre materiali e tolleranze scadenti... son soldi buttati poi ovvio uno fa' quello vuole.

Dipende da cosa uno ci vuol fare, com'è ovvio. Se pratico dinamico in classic sto su Colt, STI, Kimber, Springfield, se vado in TSN a fare qualche sparacchiata e voglio farlo con una bella 1911 parto da una Norinco, acquisto i pezzi da montargli su a Brescia e mi faccio una Custom con poca spesa

[Mr45]

...sono compatibili, ne ho "fatte" alcune senza nessun problema, la Norinco è a quote standard, a meno che non sia cambiato qualcosa nell'ulotimo anno, ma penso proprio di no

.... anche se io personalmente ho sempre preferito per customizzare prendere un usato ma di buona marca ad esempio springfield, kimber, Colt..ecc... si trovano ottimi usati in giro a prezzi altrettanto ottimi...

Ovviamente sono completamente d'accordo

[waltherp38]

Fonte: http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/inde ... 36323.html


Why Wilson Combat included NORINCO 1911 in list of ...

Levan9X19
January 10, 2012, 03:14 AM
... of guns the where ready to tune.

Is it became known to me, in early days when Wilson was tuning 1911s of different manufacture, NORINCO clones where among few listed.

I wonder if someone can proof this fact and explain why Chinese clones where included. what was the reason? Overall quality, materials used or something else?
mljdeckard
January 10, 2012, 03:52 AM
Probably just cost. You can buy a few to work with for the price of a good U.S. made pistol.
9mmepiphany
January 10, 2012, 04:06 AM
I'm not clear on what you mean by ready to tune

I will say that the Norincos were made of excellent steel. As a matter of fact, for a while, many 1911 pistolsmiths would not work on them as the steel was so tough that it wore their tooling faster.

Norinco 1911s make an excellent base gun for a full custom build...as you are using that many of the original parts anyway
Nushif
January 10, 2012, 05:03 AM
My local smith said he broke some sort of tool of his on a Norinco about last week.
seems to be pretty darned common.
Levan9X19
January 10, 2012, 06:45 AM
by saying tuning, I mean Wilson will use norinco clones as a base to built pistols. At the same time for some reason not accepting other 1911s from domestic manufacturers.
hq
January 10, 2012, 07:41 AM
I will say that the Norincos were made of excellent steel.

That's the exact reason. They're probably the toughest 1911:s around and once hand-fitted and/or customized, extremely durable. Out of the box their fit and finish isn't always up to par but materials they've made of are second to none.

At the moment I have three Norincos, a 1911A1 and two Caspian-compatible double-stacks, for custom projects. They're that good; more difficult to work on than Colts or Para-Ordnances, for example, but probably the ultimate BFTB for a competent gunsmith.
svtruth
January 10, 2012, 10:14 AM
I have heard that some smiths would take parts out of NORINCOs and transplant them to other 1911s.
Otis is DaMan
January 10, 2012, 10:22 AM
I'll just point out that the minimal literature that came with my Norinco 9mm said it has a service life of 1,000 rounds. Must be different steel.
Drail
January 10, 2012, 10:43 AM
I worked for a shop that did custom 1911 work and we built up some Norincos and they are very well made from some really hard steel. The slides were almost as hard as a file. I never used a mill on one but I could definitely see how it would eat bits up. The frames and slides held nice tight tolerances as far as fit. The barrels were hard chromed inside and out and were very easy to clean. And I personally have several Springfields that have Norinco parts on them that were taken from guns the owners wanted stuffed with Wilson Combat parts and didn't want the old parts back. Norinco made some VERY nicely checkered mag releases and nice slide stops. If you find a good deal on one that hasn't been Bubba'd, snatch it. Even though they were made by forced prison labor in Chicom they were as good as anything that came out of the Colt plant (and better than some I worked on).
TexasRifleman
January 10, 2012, 10:55 AM
Norinco M14 receivers are prized by rifle builders for the same reason, the quality of the metal itself so it wouldn't be uncommon I guess.
SaxonPig
January 10, 2012, 11:19 AM
I have heard the Norincos had a good reputation. I got this one in trade and the damn thing outshoots both my Colts including a Series '70 Gold Cup.

January 10, 2012, 11:34 AM
I really love all the myths that surround Norinco 1911s. I am surprised no one has said that they are made out of old rail road ties yet... LOL

At one time they were a solid Milspec 1911a1 being sold at a reasonable price. This was before SA was considered reliable. This was before Kimber really changed the 1911 world. Colts cost a lot more and did not necessarily get you more. The thing that really drives the Myths about the Norks is that they are no longer imported.

The frames and the slides are made of very good steel but the rest of the parts inside a Nork are ok at best. I would not consider this bad parts but
I would not use their sears, hammers or slide stops vs something made by Wilson or C&S etc... YMMV.

The accuracy of the stock guns is often hit or miss. Some people report poor accuracy but do not know why. This is often due to poor lock up of the barrel lug to the lugs in the frame. The lugs on the barrels often become deformed. The slides are often out of spec and their hardness deforms the soft barrels causing lock up issues. This does not happen with all of them but if you are buying a Nork you need to check this out. 1911tuner has posted about this in the past. He has clarified in this thread this was mainly early guns. I have owned 2 Norks which did not have this issue but I have seen bad Nork barrels like the one Tuner shows below.

Wilson IIRC no longer works on Norks. It it too hard on their milling equipment. Lot of people will not mill their slide which is necessary in order to put new sights on a custom gun if that is what you desire which most people do because the number one complaint about GI guns are small sights.

I do agree with others that if you can find one for $400 to $450 or so that has good slide lugs and good barrel lugs they are a good deal. I consider them better than base SAs or RIAs etc... at that price. Once they climb over $550 not so much.
19-3Ben
January 10, 2012, 12:28 PM
Here's kind of a dummy question for you all, from...a dummy.

Why is their "hardness" considered to be such a good thing. The little that I know about metallurgy tells me that hardness and strength are not necessarily the same thing, and are often at odds with one another. For example, something may be scratch resistant because it's hard, but that same benefit also makes it brittle because it cannot "give" as much as a softer metal.

I've never heard of anyone complaining about metals used on guns being too soft. It seems that other companies, and other 1911 makers are doing just fine with the metals that they use.

So to bring this full circle, why is the hardness of the Norinco such a big deal? Does it actually make the gun any more durable or functional than, say... a Springfield Armory?

Not asking the question to butcher any sacred cows. Simply asking because I'm curious.
nathan
January 10, 2012, 02:18 PM
THey hard to find nowadays. Most who owned them wont sell them for cheap.
hq
January 10, 2012, 03:01 PM
So to bring this full circle, why is the hardness of the Norinco such a big deal? Does it actually make the gun any more durable or functional than, say... a Springfield Armory?

In theory, it does. In practise, however, very few people shoot their guns so much that it'll make a difference. It may give some people bragging rights as real but mainly meaningless bit of trivia.
1911Tuner
January 10, 2012, 04:23 PM
The early ones had vertical barrel engagement issues and beat the lugs out of them in quick time. (See picture below) They also had headspace problems. The later ones were much better all around.

I've got one here that I bought NIB 3 years ago, cheap. It was the last of 9 Norincos that I've owned. Five are still here. It lay in the safe, ignored until 6 months ago. I couldn't make up my mind whether to sell it and make a few bucks...or shoot it and maybe fit a Kart barrel to it.

Slide to frame fit shows very little play in either axis with dry rails, and the barrel vertical fit is good. The slide action is smooth.

Headspace is mid-spec, and the trigger...straight out of the box...broke at 6 pounds, clean as a whistle.

I polished the backside of the disconnect to keep a mark from snagging the sear spring...cleaned up the barrel ramp a little because it didn't feed my 200 grain SWCs quite smoothly enough to suit me...changed all the springs...and shot it 500 times to get a feel for it.

It's as accurate as I need for it to be, holding about 2.5 inches at 25 yards with PMC hardball and a bit less with my reloaded SWCs (6 grains of Unique...dropped) It shoots to point of aim at 25 and eats everything I've thrown at it. 500 rounds...without cleaning or oiling...and nary a burp to be had.

I broke it down and cleaned it, and it's now one of my carry guns. As anal over reliability as I am, that's saying something.

. I would not consider this bad parts but
I would not use their sears, hammers or slide stops vs something made by Wilson or C&S etc... YMMV.

Oh, I would...and am. The one described above is pure stock, aside from the springs.
After 500 rounds, the trigger has gotten smoother, and the Colt sear spring brought it down to 5 pounds even. People who have handled it have usually remarked on it, saying:

"Nice trigger job. You do that?"

"Yeah. I boosted it a couple times."

EDIT TO ADD:

Almost forgot. It's also got a firing pin stop with a 1/16th radius, as is my SOP.

Early Norinco barrel. Vertical lug engagement was .025 inch on the first lug...less on the other two. Low round count.

January 10, 2012, 04:48 PM
Remember that the Norinco 1911s were first imported, as I recall, into the U.S. during the Clinton administration and it was a few years following that the same President banned them as part of a trade tussle with the Chinese government. This was at a time when there were fewer 1911 manufacturers in the U.S. then now.

Well the Norinco guns were and maybe still are made of good quality steel and at the time this was kinda rare. It was this quality and properly hardened steel that made them useful as base guns for custom builds. Their steel was of the same quality as Colt's or close to it and that was several steps above the hit or miss steel that was coming on 1911s from Brazil, Argentina, the Philippines and some of the U.S. manufacturers or frame makers like Essex. Springfield and Kimber were just beginning to make 1911s. So in this vacuum the Norincos developed a good rep and have maintained it.

They were also, at that time, the only G.I. spec guns, other than an older Colt or actual G.I. gun, that a fella could get. No one else in the world was making G.I. spec guns for several years other than Norinco they helped to revitalize that sector of the market in the U.S. G.I. spec guns with good steel with no series 80 or Swartz firing systems sold like hotcakes. They were not always well fit guns and sometimes in this regard were hit or miss.

Some may not know or remember that up till WWII the frames and slides of 1911s were not hardened. Excessive wear was a problem even with good steel. The military noted this and requested that Colt begin hardening the slides in certain spots. Colt later went to hardening the entire frame and slides and IIRC improved the quality of the steel. They later still went to stainless steel properly hardened and made as always from forgings. Norinco also used forgings which folks held were superior than the cast frames from Essex (since out of business). Caspian slides and frames did develop high quality cast frames (forged by Ruger's Pine Tree Casting and now used by them on their 1911s) but they took a good number of years to become accepted by shooters.

These factors and maybe a couple of others helped Norincos develop a good and earned rep and a certain mystique. The latter has remained especially as they are now rarer in the U.S. as the ban remains in place.

tipoc
rellascout
January 10, 2012, 05:05 PM
Oh, I would...and am. The one described above is pure stock, aside from the springs.
After 500 rounds, the trigger has gotten smoother, and the Colt sear spring brought it down to 5 pounds even. People who have handled it have usually remarked on it, saying:



I did state YMMV. LOL If you like them great but the parts I have examined in the Norks I have owned did not overly impress me. I will differ to your thoughts on the parts but in the end the Norks I owned were nothing special. I also think you are taking my comments out of context. I am not saying I would not keep a Nork parts in the gun they came in which is what you are referencing. I was instead more addressing the OP. If you are doing a custom built at Wilson or another similar shop I would swap out many of those parts. Drail got his Nork parts for free and in the same situtation depending on the vintage of the SA I might consider using them but if you are paying Wilson to redo your Nork IMHO its a different story.

Again IHMO Norks are decent guns and shot well enough for me but each time I owned one someone came along and offered me more than I had in it I sold it because honestly they did not get shot that often. Like I said I have owned 2 and sold them both and do not miss them in the least. These days people over pay for them because they are over hyped. So many people comment on them without ever actually owning or firing one. I am not the end all be all 1911 expert but having owned 2 Norks I can say they are what they are. Good Mil-spec guns which are crudely finished and used to be cheap.

Back when they were still imported as tipoc pointed out they were one of the few GI style guns that ran out of the box at their price point. This is no longer the case. I believe that part of their popularity is that they are no longer imported so there is a lot of myth that surrounds them. If they were imported today against the offering from RIA and others in a much more crowded market I am not sure they would be held at the same high level of esteem. For 90% of shooters buying 1911s these days the steel its made out of is not going top matter one bit. Again YMMV
1911Tuner
January 10, 2012, 06:17 PM
I did state YMMV. LOL

I know. That's why I posted in this thread. Mine did. Most do.

All my Norincos are runnin' on the OEM internals. A friend of mine has two...also with stock internals...that he's been doin' his level best to break or wear out for about 6 years now...so far without any conspicuous success. He did have trouble with the sear and hammer set in a 3rd one...the one he calls the "Rehab Nork" and the one I refer to as "The Norinco from Hell" but that's been worked out. That pistol was jinxed from the day it was machined. It almost made me swear off wrenchin' on 1911s.
hq
January 10, 2012, 06:54 PM
There has been discussion about this earlier: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=390711

The steel used by Norinco is apparently 5100, a particularly tough tool steel alloy.
rellascout
January 10, 2012, 07:11 PM
I know. That's why I posted in this thread. Mine did. Most do.

All my Norincos are runnin' on the OEM internals. A friend of mine has two...also with stock internals...that he's been doin' his level best to break or wear out for about 6 years now...so far without any conspicuous success. He did have trouble with the sear and hammer set in a 3rd one...the one he calls the "Rehab Nork" and the one I refer to as "The Norinco from Hell" but that's been worked out. That pistol was jinxed from the day it was machined. It almost made me swear off wrenchin' on 1911s.

And as is par for the course you address only the parts of a post you want to address. My point was and still is that Norks are good guns but their greatness is over blown. For what people get for them now is absurd considering what they did and should cost. As usual you miss my major point. It is hype that pushes these used $300 pistols into the $550 to $600 range these days.

I could insert XXXXXX brand into your statement to replace "Nork" and it would also ring true. I know people with 10,000+ round counts in Colts, STIs, SAs, & RIAs without replacing anything but springs. All dogs are poodles not all poodles are dogs. Your buddy had issues with 33% of the ones he owned but I guess we should ignore that fact. LOL

Either way I stand by what I stated before if you can get a Nork for $450 or so they are solid 1911s but these days people are paying to much based on hype.
GLG20
January 10, 2012, 07:24 PM
Years ago, I called WC about working on a Norc. Asked why this was included on the list of guns they would work on. I remember they told me something about the pin holes were all in the proper place.
krupparms
January 10, 2012, 09:42 PM
I picked up a NIB norinco 1911A1 back when they were about $300. At the time I had a Colt 80 se. I sold the Colt as the Norinco shot so much better! I put nite sights on it &changed the grips. It has had about 1000 rds tru it &it still shoots great! I am thinking about some new springs, but that's about it. Would not sell it, still one of the best 1911A1s I have ever owned! ;)
tipoc
January 11, 2012, 05:20 AM
The Norincos that I have seen and owned have been I believe a step above the RIA offerings from the Phillipines. How they compare when shooting I can't say.

tipoc
1911Tuner
January 11, 2012, 06:29 AM
Well...My point was that this idea that...whenever a Norinco is in procured...the new owner must gut it and replace all the small parts in order to have a serviceable pistol is silly.

Once in a while, you'll get one that's not up to par, but most of'em do just fine. Of course, it's your money. If that's what you want to spend it on, then by all means...carry on. But necessary? Nah.
BCRider
January 11, 2012, 04:12 PM
Up this way Norinco guns are still imported and the 1911's they produce are still available for cheap... like $350'ish to $375'ish.

Oddly enough the prevailing opinion of them is split into two camps. Those that think they are a great deal with or without some minor internal tuning and those that think they are "commie crap" and will self destruct within less than 100 rounds.

One of our more well known gunsmiths up here brings in Norinco 1911s and does a full meal deal on the tuning which includes peening the slide and frame for a tighter "match" fit and cleaning and stoning the action to produce a nice crisp 4lb trigger pull with little to no detectable creep. For this he tacks on another $150 to the price. These Armco tuned Norcs are highly respected by the owners and when they do show up for sale the price is consistently over $400.

In one of my local gun clubs where we shoot IDPA there's a group of friends that one day decided to "even the odds". All 6 or so of them bought dead stock Norinco 1911's and shoot them at special times when they are all together in our monthly matches. The guy with the lowest score has to buy brunch for the rest the next weekend. They are all using box stock guns with no tuning according to their gentlemans' agreement. They all shoot nicely and reliably.

Just thought you'd enjoy a peak at the other side of the coin where these guns are still available.
1911Tuner
January 11, 2012, 06:20 PM
BCRider...That's been my experience with'em. You'll always find the occasional example that would serve better as a paperweight. Most of'em do just fine.
Skylerbone
January 11, 2012, 08:26 PM
Getting back to the OP, I would think what any shop is willing to work on is greatly influenced by frame specs. Having to constantly adjust machinery or play around with multiple parts combinations is time wasted. Knowing house parts of known quality will fit without issue can be invaluable.

With that in mind, Norinco it seems was getting a number of things right. I wouldn't pay more than the price of a new with lifetime warranty Springfield but that's a whole other question.
CCW1911
January 12, 2012, 06:08 AM
This is kind of a hell i was there for me. The reason Wilson and a few others added the Norinco to the list of pistols they would build on is simple. Colts were hard to get and were getting more expensive at the time, and they had problems with over beveled slide locking lugs which made it impossible to build a good custom gun. It didn't hurt that you could buy a Norinco for $200 or less and since all you were using was the frame and slide the small part quality didn't matter. Also Colt front straps started getting thin and off center making checkering impossible or more difficult, Norinco's had a nice thick front strap.

All this lead to the myth that the Norinco was somehow a superior pistol to build a custom on. They were ok but when you spend a bunch of money on one you still have a expensive Norinco.

Colt got back on track and Caspian and others started making some good frames and slides so the Norinco would've gone back to it's normal status whether they quit importing them or not.

There are plenty of good pistols out there built on Norincos, I built some myself. But to say they are superior I can't agree on.
Levan9X19
January 12, 2012, 06:53 AM
ССW1911, thanx a lot for such a detailed reply! Thanx every one for such an interesting discussion
hq
January 12, 2012, 09:19 AM
All this lead to the myth that the Norinco was somehow a superior pistol to build a custom on. They were ok but when you spend a bunch of money on one you still have a expensive Norinco.

I like to think that no matter what you build a custom gun on, you have a custom gun instead of what you started with. Sometimes I sand the sides of the slide flat for a clean no-brand look, or to have the whole slide engraved, but after a gun is heavily modified it really bears little resemblance to whatever the brand/model originally was.

When I modify Colts, for example, I usually try to keep them as stock (looking) as possible, improving only things like trigger pull, frame/slide/barrel fit and maybe some other minor details. When I want to go crazy with mods, I get a Norinco because they have all the right basic qualities, they're dirt cheap and there's no collector value to be lost. Resale value doesn't matter that much either, a heavily modified gun is rarely if ever a hot seller unless it's been modified by a big-name gunsmith or shop.
1911Tuner
January 12, 2012, 09:27 AM
I don't think that they're superior to a properly made Colt, Caspian, Springfield, etc. slide and frame. At least not as far as the specs go. Where they do seem to have an edge over the others is that they're as tough as a chunk of pig iron, which is in large part why they're hard to machine. This would...IMO...make them more durable over the long haul for a pistol put to hard use. Of course, a half-million rounds as opposed to 450,000 is probably moot. The average shooter won't burn up enough ammo in either for it to be of any practical consequence.

The same goes for the internals. It's a little like an Italian SAA clone in that respect. If you subject it to the rigors of CAS, it'll need a few mods to extend its service life and tune-up schedule. The casual shooter who doesn't slam the hammer back for rapid fire won't likely have a problem.
rellascout
January 12, 2012, 09:31 AM
If we here in the US could still get a Nork for $300 to $350 I would recommend them over the RIA and other lower end GIs but since the importation ban I have not seen a good one for under $450. At that price they are still a decent value but again IMHO when they start to climb over $500 I look to other guns.

I agree 100% with hq that when you customize a gun you are creating or should be creating a one of a kind gun which suits your needs and should look the way you want it to. That ablity is one of the biggest upsides to the 1911 platform but you almost never get your money out of the gun. Even with the big name smiths you will loose 20% to 30% of what you have in the gun after customization.
1911Tuner
January 12, 2012, 01:24 PM
you almost never get your money out of the gun. Even with the big name smiths you will loose 20% to 30% of what you have in the gun after customization.

That's a fact. I get the impression that some people believe their Norinco/RIA or whatever magically appreciates in value 1,000% just because one of the well-known smiths actually toughed it with his hands...like "Hitler's Luger" or "Wyatt Earp's Buntline Special."

Buy one. Either shoot it as is or spend money on it making it uniquely you...but don't expect that it'll be anything more than it is.
19112XS
January 12, 2012, 11:04 PM
It is hype that pushes these used $300 pistols into the $550 to $600 range these days.

Maybe demand vs. supply and the shrinking buying power of the dollar also come into play.


Your buddy had issues with 33% of the ones he owned but I guess we should ignore that fact. LOL


Less than 10% actually.


The "Rehab Nork" was out of spec before Bubba tried to "fix" it. The result was a paperweight. I do thank Tuner for bringing it back to life. The moral is; always check feed ramps very, very carefully before purchase!

Since then it's eaten the hooks from one new (Nork) hammer (7500+ rounds) and a second used hammer of unknown lineage (750 or so rounds.) The current one has 500+ and shows normal wear.

Of the other Norks, most still have Nork internals, with the exception of a coupleathree Kart and Springfield Barrels. Reliability is great and accuracy ranges from 1"-3.5" at 12 yds.

Just my experience.

YMMV
cyclopsshooter
January 12, 2012, 11:21 PM
When looking at new in box examples, how do you tell an early one from a later one? Import mark location?
1911Tuner
January 13, 2012, 07:06 AM
The "Rehab Nork" was out of spec before Bubba tried to "fix" it. The result was a paperweight.

Whew! That's the pistol that nearly weaned me from makin' offers to "See what I can do with it." :rolleyes:

At one point in the rehab, if I coulda found Bubba, I'd have probably done him a little violence. At the very least, I'd have beat all his fingers flat with a ball-peen hammer to keep him from workin' on another pistol.

When looking at new in box examples, how do you tell an early one from a later one? Import mark location?

The quickest way is to check the barrel's vertical engagement. Every one of'em had barrel fit problems in that axis, and most of those also had excessive headspace and barrel play front to rear, which accelerated the lug deformation. Some of those pistols would beat the lugs out within a hundred rounds. It's so obvious that if you know what to look for, you don't even need a caliper to measure it. You can see it by slowly cycling the slide and watching how far the barrel moves up when it goes to battery. I've run into a couple that had as little as .020 inch. The Nork from Hell was one of'em. On the up side, there aren't many of those in the pipeline. Maybe 10% of the total.

On all other points, the bad ones are still salvageable, but it takes a hard-fit barrel and radical rail lowering to bring the slide closer to the slidestop centerline. Unless you can do the work yourself, I wouldn't give more than 150-200 bucks for one. The cost to bring it up to spec would make it a bad investment.
1911Tuner
January 13, 2012, 07:41 AM
Since then it's eaten the hooks from one new (Nork) hammer (7500+ rounds) and a second used hammer of unknown lineage (750 or so rounds.)

That's something that I meant to touch bases on with you. I figured out what happened to the original hammer after a close examination. I had a friend check it with a Rockwell tester, and it's a little on the soft side...but not enough to have been the sole cause.

I dummied it up in one of my Norincos...and it jumped out at me. Apparently, Bubba learned to smif from reading Ken Hallock's little white book.

The hammer face had been recontoured to get the hammer very close to the sear so it wouldn't drop so far when the slide releases it. The much harder slide wore the face of the softer hammer a few thousandths...and when it reached a certain point...the hammer started to fall directly back onto the sear after it bounces off the grip safety tang...and it beat the hooks to gobbets. The sear also suffered.

Not sure what happened to the other hammer. I haven't had a chance to look at it and try to figure it out. It may have just been a soft one that got past'em, and the harder aftermarket sear that I installed wore the hooks out in quick-time.

I know two things for sure. I don't wanna see that flippin' Nork again...and I really wanna have a word of prayer with Bubba.
CCW1911
January 13, 2012, 09:23 AM
IIRC the earlier Norinco's had large letters on the slide, I've heard that if any these would be the ones that might have some collector value some day, maybe in a few hundred years.

It's been my experience that with the lower priced guns the small parts usually suffer the most. So if the frame and slide are usable many times you need to replace the small parts. It's been a few years since I've worked on Norincos myself but it seems they were pretty unpredictable as to what you had to work with. Like Tuner said you might get one with dimensional problems but if you were doing slide to frame tightening and match barrel fit that would be taken care of as long as you could move the metal far enough. LOL
1911Tuner
January 13, 2012, 09:44 AM
if you were doing slide to frame tightening and match barrel fit that would be taken care of as long as you could move the metal far enough.

On the one described above, and another one that I did 5 years ago, I had to collapse the ways and cut the floor to get the way wide enough to get the slide onto the frame...lowering it a total of .020 inch. Additionally...on the first one...I had to create a little clearance between the top of the frame and the center fail in the slide. It's pretty labor intensive. Paying someone to do it would push the cost way above what the pistol is worth.
19112XS
January 16, 2012, 11:14 AM
The hammer face had been recontoured to get the hammer very close to the sear so it wouldn't drop so far when the slide releases it.

Bubba went to a lot of trouble to show his ignorance. What did he hope to gain?

It may have just been a soft one that got past'em, and the harder aftermarket sear that I installed wore the hooks out in quick-time.

I dunno. I did misremember my usage of this second hammer. It started following the slide between 500-600 rounds and was replaced around 650.

Now this pistol is running like a sewing machine, eating everything given. It's so reliable that I practice with a lot and am very familiar with it. Accuracy is very good and would be better if I did my part better.
1911Tuner
January 16, 2012, 02:36 PM
Bubba went to a lot of trouble to show his ignorance. What did he hope to gain?

That was one of Hallock's little tricks to keep the hammer closer to the sear when the slide was holding it off...to keep it from falling so far back to the sear when it runs forward. The purpose is to preserve a finely-honed sear crown. Properly done...and before any wear lets it fall straight to the sear...it does tend to do that, but is completely unnecessary. Ken didn't understand that the slide doesn't drop the hammer abruptly. I lowers it gradually. Quickly, but gradually...and even more gradually with a small radius on the firing pin stop.

Why the guy thought it was necessary on a pistol that hadn't been trigger jobbed is a mystery...but people have done worse thing because of something that they've read. Like...polishing feed ramps with Dremels, for instance.

Now this pistol is running like a sewing machine, eating everything given.

It's whut Ah dew, cousin. It's whut Ah dew. ;)

[waltherp38]

La polemica tra i detrattori della Norinchia e coloro che la osannano smuove gli animi anche dei nostri compari a stelle e strisce.

Perché Wilson Combat lavora su fusti cinesi?

E lo sapete quale grande customizzatore italiano (che poi si fa pagare il prodotto finito un occhio della fronte) usa materiale con gli occhi a mandorla per le proprie 1911?

[Mr45]

[GesGas]

E lo sapete quale grande customizzatore italiano (che poi si fa pagare il prodotto finito un occhio della fronte) usa materiale con gli occhi a mandorla per le proprie 1911?

il grande customizzatore usera anche materiale con gli occhi a mandorla ma di qualita'... infatti i risultati son sotto gli occhi di tutti le Sue armi funzionano e vincono...poi non e' detto che tutto cio' che arriva da quella zona geografica sia per forza scadente... la STI come la Infinity fa costruire componentistica interna che arriva dal sud est asiatico ma sotto stretto controllo della casa madre..... ormai son finiti i tempi delle 911 totalmente made in USA... purtroppo e' cosi.

[waltherp38]

NORINCHIA PARTE II

CUSTOMIZZAZIONE

Lasciando originali solo fusto carrello e canna io sostituirei la triplice, metterei un cane e controcane match, uno shock buffer in nylon, un'asta guidamolla lunga al tungsteno, una molla da 16 libbre.

Adesso indicatemi le marche, l'armeria dove prendere i pezzi e financo il prezzo dei vari elementi.

P.S. L'asta guidamolla lunga è na fissa, lo so che molti nn la vedono di buon grado ma (con tt il rispetto di John Moses) a mio modesto avviso la molla così lavora meglio e si sfibra meno.

[mimmo002]

sono anche io della idea della guidamolla lunga, ma perche in tugsteno ? per spostare il baricentro avanti ? o che?

[Calico]

Bersagliomobile dovrebbe avere tutto. Ma lo shockbuffer non lo metterei.

[Sergio]

Boh, io comunque sono tra quelli che trova assurdo comprare qualcosa per poi buttarne la metà con pezzi nuovi. E' come se comprassi una macchina e poi cambiassi tutto... a quel punto compro direttamente un'altra macchina. O un'altra pistola.

[waltherp38]

Sergio la Norinchia ke ho preso è nell'ottica di un esperimento per imparare a "mettere le mani" su di una pistola di impianto 1911.

E' come se acquistassi solo la scocca di un'auto per poi elaborarci un motore da corsa e tirarne fuori una macchinetta divertente per farsi qualche giro in pista.

[Sergio]

Sergio la Norinchia ke ho preso è nell'ottica di un esperimento per imparare a "mettere le mani" su di una pistola di impianto 1911.

E' come se acquistassi solo la scocca di un'auto per poi elaborarci un motore da corsa e tirarne fuori una macchinetta divertente per farsi qualche giro in pista.

Ah, certo, se l'hai presa apposta per fare esperimenti allora capisco.

[Mr45]

NORINCHIA PARTE II

CUSTOMIZZAZIONE

Lasciando originali solo fusto carrello e canna io sostituirei la triplice, metterei un cane e controcane match, uno shock buffer in nylon, un'asta guidamolla lunga al tungsteno, una molla da 16 libbre.

Adesso indicatemi le marche, l'armeria dove prendere i pezzi e financo il prezzo dei vari elementi.

P.S. L'asta guidamolla lunga è na fissa, lo so che molti nn la vedono di buon grado ma (con tt il rispetto di John Moses) a mio modesto avviso la molla così lavora meglio e si sfibra meno.

...sfoglia l'allegato, nella terza pagina trovi le parti aftermarket che vengono realizzare a Brescia e sono di buona qualità, hanno un prezzo abbordabilissimo e te le spediscono rapidamente. L'asta guidamolla montala in acciaio, non saranno i 30 grammi di peso in punta che ti stabilizzeranno l'arma, ma la tua presa...

http://www.bersagliomobile.com/articoli ... istole.pdf

[Mr45]

...il produttore è questa azienda... http://www.btsnc.it/ricambi_colt_1911.htm magari puoi provare a chiamare per sentire se vendono direttamente, prezzi ottimi e buona qualità. Io aggiungerei un dorsalino dritto ed un grilletto lungo in fibra

[waltherp38]

Graciasss

[waltherp38]

Esempi di customizzazioni su impianto 1911:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/custom_mods.htm

[mimmo002]

Esempi di customizzazioni su impianto 1911:

http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/custom_mods.htm

se incolli un adesivo "Abart" a forma di scorpione le pallottone vanno piu veloci.
scentificamente provato

[waltherp38]

Ma allora sì ricchione overo